Itamar Marcus explains why “Never Again – 6 million” is a terrible slogan
Palestinian Media Watch Director Itamar Marcus was interviewed by Special Envoy of the Foreign Ministry Fleur Hassan-Nahoum at the JNS International Policy Summit in Jerusalem this week. The full transcript follows below.
Some highlights:
The PA is a terrorist organization in everything but designation.
It was the PA that inadvertently created Hamas.
The PA isn't just unworthy of ruling Gaza. It shouldn't be ruling Judea and Samaria or anywhere.
Netanyahu was not trying to strengthen Hamas/weaken the PA prior to October 7. He wanted the PA to be funded.
"Never again– 6 million" is a terrible slogan. It must be replaced by: "Never again – even one."
If you believe "Never Again – six million,"then you can let the PA run things. If you believe "never again – even one," then you don't let the PA run anything.
The PA today still argues that October 7 was "legitimate resistance."
# LIVE! Interview with Itamar Marcus | JNS International Policy Summit
[Fleur Hassan-Nahoum:] We're here live from the JNS Policy Conference, and I have the absolute privilege of interviewing a favorite of mine, an incredible organization – Palestinian Media Watch. Itamar Marcus, thank you for being here, thank you for being at the conference.
[Itamar Marcus:] Hi, thank you.
[Fleur:] So I want to pick your brain about something. Last night, in a very long speech, Prime Minister Netanyahu said something which in fact made headlines today in the Israeli press. He said the day after in Gaza will not be ruled by the Palestinian Authority. Now, you've been researching, following the Palestinian Authority for decades. Do you agree with Prime Minister Netanyahu?
[Itamar:] The prime minister is absolutely right.
[Fleur:] Tell us why.
[Itamar:] And I would go even further than that. The Palestinian Authority isn't even worthy of ruling Judea and Samaria (West Bank). The Palestinian Authority by all its behavior is a terrorist organization – in everything but designation. The Palestinian Authority promotes terror before the fact. They deny Israel's right to exist. After the fact, they reward terrorists, they glorify terrorists, they name schools after terrorists. Everything about the Palestinian Authority is terrorist. So to say that they shouldn't rule Gaza is an understatement. They shouldn't be ruling anywhere. I would even go another step. I think it was the Palestinian Authority that actually created Hamas – inadvertently. The Palestinian Authority – the way it educates its people, the way it teaches its people, the way it brainwashes children to want to be Martyrs from age five and six – the Palestinian Authority paid for all the education in the schools in Gaza all these years. It wasn't Hamas, it was the PA. The PA was teaching all of this hate and demonization of Jews, killing of Jews, and then a kid reaches 15, 16, 17 and says you know, the PA is talking about it, but Hamas is doing something about it. And in that way, the Palestinian Authority was the one that created Hamas because they literally created the path to go straight from normalcy to hatred to Hamas.
[Fleur:] You know, Israel gets blamed for having created Hamas. You're saying something very different. Where does the accusation come from that somehow Israel wanted to strengthen Hamas in order to punish the PA or to weaken the PA? And is there any truth in that?
[Itamar:] There's absolutely no truth to that. We know that it was the idea of the Shabak, Israel's secret services, to give money to Hamas in exchange for quiet in the Gaza Strip.
[Fleur:] That's right.
[Itamar:] I mean that we know, and we know that that came from the security services, and this was their great plan. And unfortunately, the political leaders went along as they almost always did, they go along with the recommendations of the security services, so that was the big mistake. I can say for an absolute fact that I know that Netanyahu was not trying to weaken the PA. There were a number of times I was about to speak in different parliaments to members of parliament, and the members of parliament who had invited me who were very pro-Israel would tell me before I got up to speak, they said "don't ask us to cut off funding from the Palestinian Authority because Netanyahu wants us to fund the Palestinian Authority. He doesn't want them to be too weakened." I heard that from members of Dutch parliament. I heard it from members of Canadian parliament. I actually heard it even from European parliament members who were saying that yes, you're right, we shouldn't be funding the PA because they support terror, but your government wants us to, so I know. Anyone who claims that Netanyahu was trying to weaken the Palestinian Authority – it's just a lie. It's just absolutely a lie. I even go further. Israel passed a deduction law – the money that the Palestinian Authority pays to terrorists, Israel deducts from the [tax] money that goes [from Israel] to the PA. Palestinian Media Watch was involved in the very first moment. We brought all the information to the committee, to the security committee that was dealing with it and we saw at all the committee hearings that the Knesset members wanted to cut off all this funding to the PA. And the ones who objected were people who were coming from the government and their argument was that it was going to weaken the PA. So this is a libel against Netanyahu, a post-October 7th libel against Netanyahu that he wanted to weaken the PA and strengthen Hamas. No truth.
[Fleur:] So, Itamar, what about the people who think that honestly there's just no other option in the day after in Gaza? That it's just between a terrorist-supporting organization and a jihadi, Iranian-backed organization – one's a little worse than the other, so why don't we let the less worse one rule, and if not, then who?
[Itamar:] Okay, there's an expression that we hear every year around Yom Hashoah – Holocaust Memorial Day. Everyone says "never again", and my gut feeling always is that was the worst thing to say. That's the worst sentence, that's the worst slogan because it's always said "never again" – connected to the Holocaust, "never again – six million." That's not the Jewish way. The Jewish way is "never again – one", "never again – one". And accepting the Palestinian Authority means I'm willing to accept dozens, hundreds of people killed a year. I just don't want to have another October 7th. Well, I reject that. We cannot accept even one killed.
The Palestinian Authority Security Services get funding from the United States and other Western countries in order to fight terror. Palestinian Media Watch released a report not so long ago where we showed that the Palestinian Authority security services were deeply involved in terror. The Palestinian Authority bragged about it! They didn't try to hide it. They bragged about it. When we would document that terrorists who were killed were also members of the PA security services, the PA bragged about it. There was one interview on Palestinian TV where the representative was saying "Oh, 30% of the people in prison are members of the security services; most of the Martyrs are security services, they were very involved" and were bragging about it. So, this is who you're going to let run Gaza? No, if you believe in never again – six million, then you let the PA run it. If you believe in never again – one, you don't let the PA run anything.
[Fleur:] About a week ago, headlines were made that Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority, called Hamas sons of dogs and blamed them for the catastrophe that has befallen Gaza. Is that window dressing? What's that about?
[Itamar:] I tell you, the interesting evolution of the Palestinian Authority responses since October 7th – the immediate response was total celebration. One Fatah leader went on Palestinian TV and said October 7th made our heads touch the clouds. Jibril Rajoub, a senior Palestinian leader – Jibril Rajoub said that October 7th was "epic," it was "heroic." The Palestinian Authority celebrated October 7th. When they saw how much popularity it brought to Hamas, they realized they had to start distancing from what Hamas had caused. They have never ever said anything bad about October 7th.
[Fleur:] Except last week?
[Itamar:] What they said then was not that October 7th was bad but that the results of October 7th were bad. Mahmoud Abbas's advisor, Mahmoud Al-Habbash, spoke about three weeks ago on PATV and the purpose of the interview was to criticize Hamas for all the destruction. Again, for political reasons to criticize Hamas, and he criticized them. What did he say before he criticized them? He said "we have to start off with saying about October 7th that resistance is legitimate." He then repeated five times: "resistance is legitimate." And then he said "But the destruction that they brought on Gaza was not legitimate and therefore we blame Hamas." And that's all Abbas was saying.
[Fleur:] So we don't like the result?
[Itamar:] Exactly. You can kill as many Jews as you want as long as it doesn't come back –
[Fleur:] splash on us.
[Itamar:] Exactly. Exactly. And that was Mahmoud Al-Habbash, Abbas' advisor. And that was Abbas. And anyone who tries to twist it is just lying and we see some self-deception among Israelis.
[Fleur:] Itamar Marcus, thank you so much for the work you do, for elucidating and translating to us culturally and politically what's actually going on with the PA. Thank you so much.
[Itamar:] Thank you.